I am soo sick of builders...argh!!! ...sorry to vent, but what the heck.

After months of working with a builder, the house didnt preappraise out with the bank (negative equity...meaning it cost more to build then what it would have been worth), plus the uncontracted bid amounts were coming in higher then what the builder originally quoted us.

So we cancelled the contract, cancelled the loan app, backed out and stopped all contact with the builder after notifying them it was over.

Now a month later, that same moron builder is trying to charge us for drafting fees for those past few months!! WTF?..

Not once during all the conversations in person, or in email did this jerk ever mention he would be charging us for house plans. There is nothing in writing stating an hourly rate. We never did get a final, complete plan, just countless wrong ones.

Now he says that theyre charging us $50 an hour for each change to the plan...that they dragged their feet on and did wrong!!..and hes somehow coming up with over 28 hrs of drafting time? WTF..this wasnt the taj mahal or anything, just a ranch..!!

We looked up their name in the court cases for our state, and cripes, cases against them everywhere. I am soooo thankful we are not building with those losers. Now we have to wonder if theyll try to seek payment through collections..or a civil suit.

Anyone have a similiar situation?

Besides reporting them to the better business bureau, is there anything else we can do to prevent future contact or harrassment from them?

Its not our fault their house didnt appraise out. They were simply too expensive for what we would have gotten out of it. No granite, no stainless, no ceramic, no whirlpool, we would have done all staining, the painting, half the landscaping and they were still too much.

Thank God the banks caught on to this crook!!

Sorry to hear of that.

One question. With it still being a buyers market, why build? Why not buy cheap and remodel?

My sister had a similar issue with a builder about ten years ago. The builder drew plans, we approved, they priced the home as drafted, price was 20k higher than our "agreed in writing" price.

We backed out, he wanted nothing except the $300? (my memory is getting bad) for having "his" plans drawn.

We had a field day with this crap, but ultimately we paid the $300 because we found another (better) builder that bid the same house off the same drafted plans for 30k less. (and built it from those plans)

We saved ourselves 10k less the 300 bucks for the plan drafting. Everyone was happy, house turned out beautiful with only a couple of minor issues that the new builder fixed right away.

Sold the house three years ago for 100k profit.

So sometimes things do work out for the best!

Hey, thanks for the responses..

The only reason we're building is that we couldnt find the house we wanted after searching for a few years. The hard part is trying to find the style we like on a lot we like within so many miles of our work for under a certain amount of money.

We eventually found a beautiful lot to build on, but this crap has really turned us off.

We're trying to work with another builder and thats been going well..so well that its really shined a light on how bad the first group was. What took months for the other guy to fix on the house plans, this latest guy had fixed over night..and it was correct.

But if we could find a house to buy vs build..we'd do it in a heartbeat just to be done with all the drama. We've built before, but it was never like this time around.

As for paying the guy an amount, like $300 just to be done with it, that seems to be the census with everyone we've talked to. Not necessarily because they deserve it (we never got a correct house plan we could build from), but just to end this once and for all and to have them leave us alone.

If theyre smart, theyd take a smaller amount vs push us to litigation...especially when we have friends in the building industry who will back us up, and, we've kept every pc of correspondence we've ever had from them. We have records, we have emails, we have witnesses, we have industry people backing us.. they have...a lot of mistakes and poor communication...and pending lawsuits from other people..

Ouch!! I am a homebuilder and have been for 20 years my dad was a builder since 1966 and I have a brother that has been for 25 years, Not all of are bad, or try to get rich off people,I have lost money more times than I can count. I usually do drafts for free but dont release them to homeowner because they sometimes go builder shopping with them.
Always check out the builder first, I have gotten more jobs from people that had a builder walk out with their money than I get bid jobs. I usually stay to the higher end homes, less money to be made but shows off the talent

Don't know about Wisconsin, but out here, if it's not in writing it doesn't exist as far as Real Estate goes.

Yeah, we're not sure how this builder can claim all these fees when (1) he never told us we'd be billed for it, and (2) we NEVER got a finished, useable building plan.

We think he's just upset that the house didn't appraise out and we walked. We also think they're probably in financial trouble and theyre trying to make money anywhere they can...even if its not warranted.

Sorry, but we were always told that the prelim drawings and specs were a part of the selling process of the builders. If the house doesnt get built, those costs are considered overhead and the builders eat it, not the client. We're not talking blue prints and CDs that we can take elsewhere to use...duh...

I agree with Jerry...I`m an architect with one of the largest home builders in the country....(2 yrs ago, we built 3000 homes that year)
let me say this first, 28 hrs to draw a plan is not very much, and at $50/hr...not bad....my dept draws pretty fast and a one story house is normally 25-30 hrs, a two story 40-45...after having said that...when a builder gives a price , its a price...you get a contract thats it...we always give people contracts up front ,that includes any re drafting of existing plans too...
sounds like you got a wrong builder...jast as with engine builders, body shops etc ,ALWAYS check out who you are dealing with...BBB etc.
their reputation in the community etc...
on my "extra work" I charge $100/hr OR $1.40 / SF (living/AC area)...

dont put all builders in the same boat!

Bjorn, my cousin is a builder, and Ive friends that are builders as well, so perhaps I should clarify... bad builders, crooks, builders who don't communicate clearly, builders who don't listen.

All we or anyone asks for is for people to be upfront and honest about everything. The easiest and safest way to do that is by having everything clearing written out and agreed upon in advance.

But to those that like to "back end bill", sorry, those kinds of business practices only lead to sour grapes and lots of whine...

Sorry for the pun.. but its true.

Man, I never thought it would be so far to find a house to live in or build...

I think both sides have reasonable positions..

Really depends on the contract you signed...they are all different. ie who takes that risk, costs for canceling, remedies etc. send it to me if you want me to go over it, I deal with these all the time. Most of my construction contracts can be 80-300 pages, but I don't mind giving you my take. I have a few courses on construction contract law, but a ton of experience in disputes, and believe me...wished I did not

best builder contract imho is a one page...."cost plus"...you know exactly what you pay for.....he knows exactly what he gets

Dave, thanks for the offer. Thats very kind, and we may take you up on it if this goes to litigation.

No where in the contract does it mention anything about billing for drafting services. There is nothing written in any correspondence, emails, anywhere about being billed for drafting services.

The only time a fee for plans was ever mentioned in the entire 6-7 months of working with these builders was when the guy made an off the cuff remark to my wife that they might, might have to charge for the plans if things fell through, perhaps a couple hundred dollars, and then we would be able to keep the plans and take them elsewhere..

But.. we never got good, final, useable plans to take elsewhere. We do not have plans that we can take to another builder and say...build this.

All I can say is, we are sooo thankful we are not working with them anymore. They really did do great work, but, we just cant trust them, and we suspect there company might be in trouble.

why do you want them? I thought they were worthless and the design was underappraised?

Did you surrender any deposit? Consider he can't operate 6mos free, a nominal fee isn't out of line.

Im spent on the topic....

I have learned too about contractor cost overruns. Thats why I only deal with family or close friends. One is a rough carpenter, one a finish and three great friends handle electric and plumbing.

I did my 30k estimated contracted kitchen with maple cabinets and granite for $18k by installing myself with friends. Although building a house from the ground up is a different story, it really helps when word of mouth assists in the decision along with speaking to people who have had houses built by the firm.

As far as the drafting plans, I believe as long as you were not provided a hard copy of the originals, you do not have to pay for the drawings. Thats just my impression of what I heard from builders.

You shouldn't have to pay for sketches done only for the purpose of estimation. If you can submit those drawings for a building permit, they are plans, and should carry a price in line with the time spent creating and editing them to suit your specifications.

lol, life does that sometimes.. it makes me no nevermind nohow.. I was just lonely and wanted someone to talk too

it all depends on the agreement ,which seems non existant....it is possible you DO pay for sketches too, not just permit sets....
often times I`m asked to do just sketches, for some projects.

I dont know if your state has "verbal " contracts as Texas does...but if not...the court ,if you were sued , would ask for the contract ,and as there is none....

"estimating drawing" COULD be asked for to determine if buyer could afford the house...but , again ,its all depending on what was contrcated for.