http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/?cmd=ViewItem&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649&item=261048966368&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT#ht_5252wt_1182
Firebird

I'm seriously interested in this car, but would love some advice from the experts here. I had a 68 convertible in High School about 30 years ago, and would love one again. From what I can check out, this car does seem to be what the seller claims. What say you guys? I'm very leery of buying a car long distance since I'm in Washington state. I've lurked here for a long time off and on, and would really appreciate your help. I've always wanted a 400 convertible, and love lots of options, so this one seems to fit my bill. It also is in great apparently mostly original condition, which would let me enjoy it right away, and let me slowly bring more of it to a better condition. The Nancy Sinatra angle is interesting, but not counting on that being true. I think the car is worth about 35k. Would you buy it without going to look at it in person? Anything else I should ask the seller? Thanks guys!

Looks legit and original at first glance. Hood scoops should not be black, should be body color, only the "grill" should be black. No big deal, just noticed that. Real nice desirable car.

1) No, I would never purchase a car long distance without checking it out personally. My thinking is that if you have the means to get this car, you have the means to go see it.

2) I would be asking myself WHY is this guy NOT just taking this car to Barrett-Jackson. If it is in as good of shape as he says it is with the history and rarity is supposidly has, BJ would be the perfect place to sell this car. They LIVE for stuff like this. That right there was cause me to go Hmmmmmmmm.

Could it be this car would not stand up to close observations...?

For $40k starting bid that tight little thing in the bikini should come with it.

Any car that is advertised with a hood ornament like that I get skeptical.

For half that price you can find a car just as nice. It may not be an HO or ordered/owned by a celebrity. But you'll have more money in your pocket at the end of the day.

X 2

I dont like sellers who 'threaten' in their ads...like:
"If not sold this car will be trailered to Barrett -Jacaskon next month"

who the hell cares what he does with it if it doesnt sell?

I agree with others here...too much hype and not worth $10K more than another 400 converts in my opinion. And if you want the original color back since that is one of the most unique things about the car, you are talking another $10K or more.

I say see the car in person if you really love it...otherwise leave it for someone else and keep looking. The keep looking part is hard, but probably will be well worth it in the end.

Dave

I have bought cars off EBay without any issues including my current Firebird. Make sure you ask very pointed questions with regards to the condition of the car. For example mine needed to be rust free and I told the seller as such. Be prepared to walk away if he does not deliver what you ask. You can even tell him that before hand. It may cost you a trip and some negative feedback but it usually works out.

Thanks for all the advice. It is appreciated, and understood. OTOH, I have contacted the seller, and have made a tentative deal on the car. I will likely fly out to see it, and conclude the sale. From the seller's description along with the photos, it is believable that this has 33k original miles. It is unmolested for the most part, has almost all the original parts. That along with the provenance of the car and its documented options like HO, A/C, etc. make it a good deal for me. I don't have time for a complete restoration, this car doen't need it, yet it is a very presentable car as is. The kind of tlc I do have time for along with new paint, it should be very nice car indeed. I look forwards to being more active here!

Please follow up with us and perhaps include some photos if you do decide to close the deal.

And welcome, BTW.

You might want to offer up on this board some gas money and dinner to look at the car as well. Never hurts to have two sets of eyes when your spending that kind of money.

I would take a person that knows Firebirds very well or meet up with someone from that area, something is a little fishy that he wouldn't take a documented car to an auction.
Take some papers from a 1968 Pontiac Manual to confirm what is installed Don't Believe the seller. The documents won't lie!
Go to thefirstgensite.com/library/ to find out what the car has installed, because for 40K it better be ALL Original

Just note that a lot of original stuff is missing or changed.

Are there any pictures of the whole trunk?

According to the list of options, it looks like there is quite a bit of original stuff missing, and evidence that it has had more than just a paint job due to things like the hood scoops and incorrect grill for a 400.

It could be what the guy claims, but just be cautious, and go over it very closely.

EBay shows this item no longer available. Guess I'll stop finding more and more stuff wrong or missing.

Must have had that money burning a hole in his pocket.

It might have been that exterior paint color

Or it was time for another bikini wash?

You weren't looking hard enough. Those were short shorts.

did you mean bikini waxing?

Well, it's looking tight for the deal now. Guys, if I can't swing this now, I'd sure be grateful if you'd alert me if you ever see this or another highly optioned 68 convertible 400 again.

I'd be curious to know if there were any other documented facsimile's from Mr. DeLorean during this time period. Faxes were just starting to see more widespread use in the late '60's.

Deepsky 68's are out there, if it doesn't happen just keep looking one will come your way.
Something doesn't make sense with that car, from what's been said here, and it's been pulled off ebay, something's amiss with it.

Been a while but I remember rolling a sheet of paper up onto a drum, loading it in the FAX machine, calling the receiving party to have them get their machine ready, dialing, and then letting it spin and transmit for something like 2 or 6 minutes depending on the resolution wanted.

At the same time, we were amazed by the technology.

I would not take a Pontiac to the "Ford & Chevy" (Barrett Jackson) show. They never seem to get a good buck there.

You need to have someone look at the car for you that understands these cars (and take 150 pics) or fly out to see it yourself. I have been looking/watching for 3 years now. That car "appears" to be a very good find but the condition needs to be verified (and paper work etc.).

I bought my 68 400 HO vert based initially on a one line ad in Racing Junk!

Worked out great for me.

Deepsky. I have all the info you need on this 400 HO vert and a fair bit of previous owners history. Please PM me your phone # as i'd be happy to help.

Well, the reason I backed off was digging into the seller's history. Check this out: Joe Cipolla http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/threads/anyone-know-joe-cipolla.16306/ a real scum. I also found that this car was on ebay a few months ago from a different person, and he said the odometer had turned over, so not a 31k mile car. I still like the provenance of the vehicle, but this guy is bad news.
Can you guys comment at all on this car? Firebird It's not as original, but I like the blue color, and it's a ready to go ride. Thanks again guys!

Looks real Nice, But I'd still take someone who knows about Firebird's and make sure it's worth it, these cars can look real nice but hide some major problems very well only someone who knows what to look for and where to look can help, Do you have a friend?
Ask someone here who lives close to the car

If you are looking for original, that's about as far away as you can get. It would take another 30k to bring that one back.

There's another one in St louis on Ebay for less by a dealer, just a different color.

Regarding the 2nd (blue) car, I agree - pretty darn modified.

Here I wonder about somebody who puts all this effort into a car and does seem to know enough not to use the dreaded "400 big block" term and thinks the original Rally II wheels are 15 inch.

And there is this winner: "12-bolt Pontiac posi-traction rear-end with 3.35 gears"

This guy modified the crap out of '68 Firebird but seems to know nothing about Firebirds.

This phrase: "The body seams have been removed for a clean look", would scare the hell out of me.

Well at least he didn't remove the door seams, LOL!

deepsky, take a look at this thread.

https://firstgenfirebird.org/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=253710&page=1

Not a 400, but there are nice cars out there for a fraction of the price. This was grabbed quick and flipped by the new buyer. Bottom line is you can find what you're looking for and not pay top dollar.

Thanks guys for the advice. There's a new one on the bay Turquoise not a 400, but has the hood. I like the color and condition, but again it isn't that stock, of course. Seems like a good price for what's gone into it. I'm looking for a fun 68 convertible, but really stuck on blue or red. Outside of the non stock engine and transmission, any other comments? Be nice, it's my birthday. Also thanks to Lane from Australia for calling me on his dime to give me advice on the one in Chicago. Can't possibly be a Sinatra car.

No worries Deepsky!

Regarding most recent Turquoise...

"Outside of non-stock engine and transmission..."

I will add the following, which were clipped directly from the auction...all non-stock:

350/325Hp New Crate Engine (20 Miles),,,
HEIDTS Subframe...
Rack & Pinion Steering...
Wilwood Disc Brakes (Front)...Disc Brakes Rear...
Vintage Model Air Conditioning (New)...
Flaming River Tilt Steering...
M21 4 Spd Transmission...
Krager Wheels w/Mickey Thompson Tires (New)...
New White Convertible Top (Manual),,,
Flowmaster Dual Exhaust,,,
All New Upholstery...
Engine competely new (Holley 4 Barrel, Water pump, Alt, Hoses, etc...MSD Ignition)...

I could rattle another huge list beyond above of non-original items I can see right there in the pics...trunk spoiler is quite glaring, but a common "period correct" add-on stolen from a Camaro...and my 68 'vert also has the same spoiler...cuz I like it. Purists hate it. I don't care what purists think. It's my car.

So you've never really said whether originality is an issue for you or not. If originality is a concern, then this is absolutely not the car for you. It's a LONG ways from original. But if it has been well-built, this car could be a fantastic driver...BETTER than original. Frankly, other than the color, I really LIKE the list of mods he has done...they meet my personal taste. But meeting my taste does not equate to monetary value. ALL of these mods tend to detract from resale/collectable value, and make returning to original a great challenge if that is a future priority. If returning to original is NOT a priority, then it might be a "so-what" moment for you, and if you like the car, then try working a deal on the car...beauty is ALWAYS in the eye of the beholder...and in the eye of the buyer.

So all that said, if you're looking for a fun, somewhat modernized/improved?/modified driver, this one might fit the bill nicely if you like the look/features on this car and if the quality is there. IMO this car is really better characterized as a resto-mod/custom than it is even a '68 Firebird. I'd go so far as to call it a kit/catalog car, that used a '68 Firebird body as a basis to build from. This car happens to still look like a 68 Firebird, but nearly everything except the general body panel shape has indeed been changed. If you like that, it's a good thing. If you want original, it's a bad thing.

Photos are not clear enough to show many things. Undercarriage and paint condition primarily are my concerns. It looks like a good 20 footer, but I really wonder about the gloss of that paint...something there just looks wierd...where are the reflections? Looks like heavy heavy orange-peel? Or EXTREME metalflake/pearlcoat? Or maybe it's just the low quality of the photos that's throwing me off...

If the car is indeed solid as a rock, paint meets your quality standards, and you want just a fun driver, and above all YOU LIKE IT as it sits, then I think the price is passable and this car may be worth looking into...and as you certainly also realize, maybe the price is flexible? I can pretty well guarantee this car won't meet reserve and won't sell, but you might chat with the owner and may agree to a lower bottom dollar, and get a better idea of up-close condition.

He makes ZERO mention of the condition of anything at all, except for listing the obvious new parts. Distant photos can hide LOTS. And this auction is 100% distant photos, except the close-up of the tach which is blurry (intentionally blurry??) Just beware. It might be a fine car, but nobody here knows. There are lotsa lotsa questions to be answered before anyone can make a solid judgement based on this particular Ebay auction...so if you're interested, start asking MANY questions of the seller before road-tripping to inspect...this car could be straight as an arrow...and it could also be carrying 240 pounds of body filler over gaping/hidden rust holes...

Don't trust anything on ebay, the people always beat around the bush about the true condition of the car. Find some service that does more than just goes out an takes pictures some one who knows cars. May cost but well worth it.

Crazecars, and others, thanks again. I am in a paradox since I would love to have a collectable desirable 400 RAII with all the options possible, in showroom condition in the perfect color combo I would like, but that just isn't realistic. I couldn't drive the car, it would be a museum piece. The bird I want after much debating is probably one that looks mostly original, but is a fun car with modern creature comforts. Not nearly as collectible, but I could really enjoy it. That's why I've veered towards these non stock cars. I can mix and match colors and options without worrying about the collectibility suffering, because they already aren't in that category. Sure, I like the original state of the collector cars, and if I were Jay Leno, I'd have several bone stock original cars. One of my pet peeves about 1968 Pontiac was the imho atrocious colors available. It severely limits my interest in ~80% of the birds I can find. I like blue and red. I also like the bronze color, but that is even more rare on the original cars. So, I'm willing to compromise, and go for a non stock car as long as it's stock looking from the outside for the most part.

I really appreciate all your comments, please keep them coming.

Well paying 40K for a Firebird that isn't original is up to you, the owner will put a value on it, but you may not get it back if you decide to sell it, most car collectors look for originallity, not the options that I think the car should have so it's totally up to you what you want to spend and desire.
We don't want to see you get stuck with a car you won't be happy with.

I am the owner of this Pink Mist Firebird, as a 20 year veteran of the Chicago Police Dept, and a 100% positive feedback score, with impeccable moral character. I can assure you the car is legitimate. Scumbag? I believe you have the wrong guy. The Delorean letter has a COA, indicating the letter was written with IBM Composer Proportional typewriter introduced in 1966. Also, my understanding is Nancy owned 2 cars...the first one being wrecked and ended up in Las Vegas. Nancy's special aired in Dec. 1967, the car was produced in March of 1968. The car is a lot of things, and is not a lot of things. However the eBay auction is 100% accurate. Larry from Australia is upset that I would not accept his offer. So he is trying to find ways to impune the car. Yes, it's the wrong color, wrong interior color, missing hood tach...and grill hockey sticks. the car is still a one if a kind vehicle. It got damaged at Mecum..U And is now going to be correctly restored. It's unfortunate the jealous nature of some people on the board, if you do not want the car, do not buy it. Also, I'm glad you guys like my wife, as seen washing my car. I appreciate the jealousy of this thread. find something better to do with your time.


Regards,

Big Joe