I have a failing stock radiator on my 68 Bird 400 and need to find a replacement. I have heard that the aftermarket allumina radiators have fit problems. I have identified an OE radiator through Classic http://www.classicindustries.com/firebird/parts/crd3373a.html that seems to address the fit problem but wanted to check to determine if forum members have any additional suggestions here. I am not hung up on keeping everything stock and would like a more efficient radiator that does not cost more than $30o0 if possible. Thanks

I bought one off EBay from Champion....they market them as for pontiacs , but you have to buy it as if for a Camaro w big block....or find the dimensions...they have two sizes...IIRC about 22 in across and 24 in across...radiator support has holes for both as its common support for both makes , but your shroud wont fit the smaller...I had to return mine , exchange for the larger...but I`m very happy with it..it dropped my temps 10-12F and that was all I needed...actually my old stock one did the job too, but I wanted to make SURE for our trip to Estes Park 2 yrs ago...in Texas summmer hot weather I run 190 now ...

it was just abv $200 , maybe 230 or so..its a 3 row...my buddy bought a 4 row...its just a few bucks more but was out of stock when I got mine..

http://www.championradiators.com/page/407019774
is the result of a websearch for it...that brand

Bjorn, what did you use for stock shroud attachment?

Or do you have an aftermarket shroud?

There is one company where all they do is make aluminum radiators for Firebirds and GTO's. So they fit perfectly and the OEM shroud fits.

But they are not cheap.

Rodney Red.

just drilled into the aluminum radiator flanges...got stock shroud

The Rodney Red product looks good albeit expensive. What are the advantages of internal trans cooler? Do I need radiator with our without internal trans cooler for 69 400 w/o A/C?

I bought the largest Be Cool aluminum radiator from Summit for about $250 and a new fan shroud. Using a sheetmetal flex fan and no clutch and my 461 beast stays at 180-190 all day, every day so far. Love it!!!

I would put the trans cooler as a seperate unit in front of radiator so the heat from the trans doesn't transfer into the engine.

OEM radiators for auto trans cars had internal trans coolers, without for stick shift cars.

Thanks guys. Very helpful responses. Two remaining questions.

1. is the cooling performance of an alluminum unit that much better than a stock unit? and,

2. is four rows better than 3 rows?

Hope that this is the first and last radiator I put in so willing to spend a bit more if its extends the life of motor.

Thanks again.

I was told aluminum dissipates heat quicker, so I went with a BeCool from Summit like boater bill. Bolted right in.

Thanks. Will take a look.

I installed a Summit aluminum radiator, a 160 degree T-stat, and a 18 inch fan with a cluth, and stock shroud, and it runs 170-175 all day moving in low 90 degree heat, creeps to 185-190 sitting in traffic, then immediately back down to 175-180 moving again. I love it, and can finally drive my car in the summer!! I was running 200-220 moving with my old copper brass replacement radiator that someone installed in the 70's. Original harrison was long gone so I went for drive-ability rather than originality.

<I was told aluminum dissipates heat quicker>

I'm not sure that's correct. If I recall, copper is king at heat dissipation; also, someone mentioned that independant testing has shown copper to outcool aluminun, but I picked up tha information on the internet. Myself, I would agree with the findings, but that's just me

Laugh all you want about gathering infromation on the internet. But as you are laughing, keep in mind that 220' is too hot is also something you picked up on the internet, information that is documented to be incorrect; all you have to do is read real technical material, not technical information from people whom are ledgens in their own minds.

Thermal Conductivity at 400 degrees K:

Copper 3.92 Watt cm-1 K-1
Aluminum 2.40 Watt cm-1 K-1

But this is the comparison that counts:

Copper $3.43/pound
Aluminum $0.83/pound

Brings the really old joke to mind:
Q. Why do railroads hire retired policemen?



A. Because copper makes a good conductor.

Copper does absorb more heat quicker, but because it is a denser metal, does not disapate heat as quick as aluminum.

While that may be true, I am not sure that matters all that much. If you were designing heat sinks for power transistors, then yes. But convective heat transfer in a radiator, don't see how it would matter all that much. I still maintain there is one factor. Cost.

Hey Danswrld , sounds like you just did this. Was it a direct bolt in and fan shroud the same? I am looking at them also, can I ask what part# you ordered?

The fan shroud fits, but not as good as the original radiator. There is some gaps on the sides, and I did a bit of clearance work with my dremel. The radiator I bought,for some reason, was not quite as long as the stocker, so I had to drill a couple new holes in the support. I will try to send you some pics of what I'm talking about. Also, the 19.5 inch fan won't fit, so I ordered an 18 inch fan from classic industries and I still ended up doing a bit more grinding with the dremel on the bottom area of the shroud. This could have just been my car, as it was hit years ago and I replaced some of the front sheet metal back in the early 90's. Yours may have better fitment. Overall though it droppedy temps from 195-205 cruising and 210-220 at stoplights to 170-175 cruising and 185-190 at stoplights. That's with a 160 T-stat. Waaaay worth it! The only part # I could find on the radiator is #5072 and the shroud is a reproduction. I actually did the radiator in 2006, but just within the last 2 years got the car out of storage and have been going through it now fixing all the little drivability issues. The heat was a HUGE drivability issue for me.