Just got my 69 convertible back from paint and bodywork to replace rear quarters, repair some rust in the lower rear corners of the front fenders and do a complete re-paint in the original Liberty Blue metallic. I'm generally happy with the work, but the gap at the rear of the hood opening is really wide (almost 1/2 ")and the front center of the hood is rubbing when closed on the rubber trim strip. At the rear upper corners of both fenders the flat horizontal surface is fairly exposed from under the windshield trim and the door gaps on both sides, while balanced between front and rear, are also fairly wide. This leads me to believe that the fenders and entire front end are too far forward. I did a search of body FAQs and posts and read where the front end pieces are only adjustable forward and aft and should be adjusted after the doors are adjusted for fit (presumably at the rear edges).
I'm going back to the (dealership) body shop on the 14th for a couple of other things and would like some opinion/confirmation that I should seek adjustment to the front end.
Yup, sounds like you need things moved rearward. It is a very labor intensive project to align the front sheet metal on a 69. If they owe it to you then it's on them. If it's on you be prepared for a big bill for hours of labor.
There is a boatload of adjustment. In your case, the core support needs to move back.
Keep in mind that I don't know anyting about fixing cars; I just comee here and see how many people's cars I can screw up. All you have to do is ask around.
Thanks. It will likely be a negotiated issue. They removed the hood, the front end (less the fenders and radiator support) and the doors and were supposed to align them, although it wasn't a hard and fast part of the quote.
I'm going to see what I can get them to do and for how much.
Thanks. I'm not (yet) familiar with F-body structure; is the core support fastened to the sub-frame anywhere or only to the fenders (ie: what holds it 'up'?).
Go to about page #4 in the "body" section. I did a post on May 13. Since no one on this planet has even a basic understanding or a clue how to start a baseline assembly, this is the best source of information on the sjubject on the net.
Yes, I read your long post with photos; very helpful, thanks. Another question, though: of the two endura headlight surrounds, one lines up pretty well with the fender and rubber strip between them, but the driver's side is about 1/4 inch low and is tilted-out from the fender about 1/4-1/2 inch along the bottom. Both fenders measure exactly the same height from the ground and the bumper is snugged-up to the endura surrounds pretty evenly. Given what you wrote about only fore and aft adjustment of the nose, can you suggest what's going on and how I can correct it?
Thanks very much, your comments have been very helpful.
i spent more hours ligning up the nose on my 69 bird. mostly th bumber assembly.what i ended up with is the paasengers side endura headlight assembly is a little angle down for me . so i will tackle it agian. the best you can do is get the error spread out as much as possible.
I'd have to look at it. The first problem you describe is 100% in the core's position. The other problem could be a result of coure alignment, or it could damag to the header panel or headlight frame.
If your man has a half ounce of mechnaical aptitude, whether or not he knew before, it will be clear after you explain it. How happy he is going to be will be intersting because explaining what needs to be done is one thing and doing it is in a different ballpark. I'd rather be in the explain ballpark than the repair one. Then again, I hate working on f/ing cars, so my point is moot.
Then again, I hate working on f/ing cars, so my point is moot.
I would love to hear what soured you on working on cars. Most people I know (that own old cars) truly enjoy tinkering. If you own an old car (e.g., FGF) you know they require constant tinkering. If you hate it so much, why wouldn't you just buy a new car and be done with it. I really am not trying to be a smartass, I am just curious.
After working on cars professionally for 17 years, it erodes the psyche, especially if working on cars was the only employment gig one can land.
Selling, hell getting rid, of the car isn’t an option. As I have previously mentioned, for the last decade around here, that I’m a former mechanic, I have also owned my 9 since 85 (it went on the road 87 for the haters out there who are out to get me) and it was put together using my other bird I bought in 77. So as far as the steering wheel, seat, shifter, brake, gas, I’ve been nonstop operating them since 1977. That’s one hell of a long time. PCI wouldn’t sell for $20k. I wouldn’t sell for 100k.
The reason that ‘these cars require constant tinkering’ is because they belong to people who tinker with cars, not to a well-seasoned professional mechanic who has maintained, in essence, the same car for 35 years.
It doesn’t get any easier to figure out and fix things than on these; also, there is virtually zero mechanical failures if you do minimal inspection and pm. (At the other place that a guy found metal on his magnetic drain plug and oil filter. He goes on that it’s a new build. He ran break-in oil. After, he changed the oil and racked up THREE-THOUSAND-FIVE-HUNDRED miles before he changed the oil again. I would have been on at least my fourth to fifth oil change. No wonder you guys phuck’em up the moment you buy them!)
Other than inspection and pm, I have done virtually nothing to mine in the 300k since I put it together: 4 or 5 batteries, 2 alternators, 3 water pumps, a chain, 3 th350’s, cannot recall how many shoes, 3 masters and 2 sets of wheel cylinders. Also toss in few thousand gallons of oil changes, and a 55 gallon drum of brake fluid as flush.
Bottom line: I work on car as a default, not a desire.
Also not trying to come off as an ahole, but if I had one-tenth of the issues that hobby car guys have with keeping their vehicles running, I would have bailed decades ago.
I could help resolve some of the car drama that people have with their cars. And it isn’t as if I tried in the past. Rather than discuss the past, the board has made it perfectly clear, I’ll do as I always do, focus on now and the future. I’m done as a technical advisor and will only act as an occasional consultant.
Appreciate the candid discussion. In many many cases (my own for instance) we are playing catchup for sins of the past (e.g., not doing PM and living with issues that have piled up over many years). I too hope to get where you are, namely replacing just the normal wear and tear items.
If that doesn't work, search by date. It was May 13. You can shortcut a page by page search by clicking my user name, selecting view posts, and it's nose align in a 9.
If you have a strong mechanical aptitude, you don't even need to look at my post to understand what's going on. The car and subframe is a stationary unit. The nose doesn't have lateral or width adjustment. It bolts in its non adjustable, stationary location, and the core/fenders are shifted until they align with the nose.
Gm had standard engineering, meaning they used the assembly process on multiple makes that also pass through multiple years. In other words, the same approach--most likely--applies to a lot of hokeyass GM noses. Now that I have found what is clearly a lost key, I could tell wether or not it applies to other vehicles by inspecting the way the nose attaches to the car.
you must be suffering from burn out. i know i am. i finished my bird with just small things to do but i just cant do it. its easy stuff and im done but 32 yrs of firebirds is enough for me. i just need a break for a while. you need a break from it and enjoy the ride and do something else for a bit. cant get those birds out completely....
I was burnt out on cars when I put it together in 85-87 and have never rebounded. I want the car back to its origional obnoxious orangel and the only way it will happen if I do it.
I started in October, on an early sunday afternoon the moment I hopped out of the car when I came back from fall OC cruise. I thought that I would be done on tax day, but there I go thinking again.
I decided to revist the doors and am dinking with the crowns, backtracing to #80. That notwithstanding, I have the whole car #320 blocked.
Since October, I have about 1.4k hours in it. I spent a lot of time in panel alignment, with the nose a cakewalk secondary issue. While deep in the car, I am going over everthing as a precaution.
I have mocked the car so many times, I can simply place the fenders on the car without a clink. The only thing I need to do is decicde whether or not I'll protect the topcoated edges with tape when I assemble the car.
Since the first of the year, there have been 3 days that I haven't worked on the car, even if the day's work was an hour or so. And those three days were grandbaby days.
I would love to take a break, but I cannot do it. I think that I have mentined that I actually hate the f/ing car because I'm intellegent enough to know it's beyond an obesssion. And it infuriates me to think that some pos car has total control over my life.
The problem is that I'n in a situation that I have never been in before. Minus the 2 year build block, since 1977, I have always been able to walk up to the car, stick the key in, and take off. Never ever has it been torn down this long.
It isn't so much a case of not driving it, but that I cannot drive it.
I look at as being incarcinated becuse jail has to have some level of burnout. I commited the crime of knocking paint off the car that it's in the picture. Lost of folks say that alone shows what an idiot I am. Let's add the frosting. Actually its origional color is one of the horrendous colors one could ask for. My son-in-law loves it, but my daughter about passed out and said you gotta be kiddin, and my mother would be rolling in her grave if she had one.
Anwway, I made the commitment, so I have to pay the price. The padding on the walls is that I drift back to those 17 years of the chits, reminding myself that I don't have to do it for a living anymore, and it allows me to move onward though the fog.
definately burn out and i have been there and still am. i had to walk into the garage start slowly and put less hours into it. pressuring my self to finish it was not a good way of doing it. my wife actually pushes me into finishing it and im doing it slowly at a pace and doing other things in the same proccess. i picked a area and focus on one spot at a time. alignments are a pain. i did the doors first and mocked up front end and frame with a tape measure every inch of the way before paint. having the shims pre setup for easy install. still taping it is the best way. the hood goes easier when the fenders are set in close to your measurements and the shims are preset to go in. still i see your point i sometime hate that f--king thing because im mostly im a perfectionist and it will never be perfect.
I have the same burn out on computers. As a hobby i did it for fun all the time. Now its been my career for the past 25 years,i started in computers before the IBM PC / MicroSoft revolution. I still enjoy my work ,but its no longer a hobby. I dont like going home to work on all my relatives / friends pc's. I love working in the garage , it relaxes me. if i get frustrated i go in the house or work on a different section of my bird.
"The best you can do is get the error spread out as much as possible" ... I like that. My reply would have had more four letter words, but yours is nice.
I had a body man in the family - It still wasnt cheap. But he got things verrry close. It helps having someone who knows how to adjust things, and some things you just cant do yourself. We're still not done - will have to elongate some holes.
The other thing is if you are using repro parts, they dont fit for ****! And no two parts are the same. I had fenders fit perfect with no adjustment, and others you cant adjust enough.
