69 400 vert that the top is stuck down. It makes noise when activating but the top will not go up. I am thinking it is low on fulid or needs to be bled. How do i get to the mechanicals for the top? Thanks!

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Have everything apart. Does not look like there is a leak, but there is air in the lines as well as low oil. What is the best way to bleed the lines and add oil. Thanks.

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Here are some pictures.

there is a fill plug on the pump. pop it out and add some transmission fluid just to the bottom of the fill hole. leave the plug out and operated the top, you may have to go up/down with the switch a few times to get it to start moving. once it starts moving and you see the air bubbles diminish, top the fluid off to the bottom of the fill plug and reinstall the plug. note that you won't be able to get all the air bubbles out, but when the top is functional you should be good.

Thanks Jeff! I did do that after reading the PDF file. Filled the pump and had a few throws of the up and down until I noticed leaking from the passenger side hose connector. I had to cut line as the connector is crimped onto the line. Have to find similar part now and reattach the hose. Thanks again, almost had it.

this site seems to have some good pricing on our vert parts.

http://www.convertibletopguys.com/convertible/680/1967-69-Pontiac-Firebird#hydraulics

Thanks Jeff. However, do they sell a new compression fitting without the hose? I didn't see it on the site.

probably not, but you need a special crimper to do those fittings yourself...best to just buy the whole line, OR, find a shop that does hydraulic lines, custom and otherwise to do it...but it may end up costing just as much.

Thanks Jeff. I spoke with my brother in law who is a plumber and owns a supply shop. He made me up a copper compression fitting gadgets that I was going to try to install tonight after work. I am going to have dinner with the family and then try it. I will post pictures if it works or if it fails will give details as to why.

Well, finally finished. The seats were the worst part. NOTE TO ANYONE DOING THIS. PLEASE REPLACE SIDE INTERIOR FASCIA BEFORE REPLACING SEATS OR YOU WILL HAVE TO REMOVE THE SEATS TWICE!
Well used some copper tubing, compression fittings and clamps and done.

Nice garage!

I hope you didn't use more than a couple inches of copper tubing in there or you'll be taking that apart again. Those cylinders move back and forth as the top goes up and down.

Where can I find this PDF? I have a top that blows 2 fuses just to get up. I see air in the line and there is leakage under the hydraulics. How do I know if I have a motor issue, a hydraulic issue, a line/connection issue, or any combination of above?

-Clueless in Charleston

The plastic line screws onto the fitting at the bottom of the rams, it is not a compression fitting.

I could be wrong but for some reason I thought the power tops were run through a resetable circuit breaker not a fuse. I looked at the Wiring Digram and couldn't find either.

Anyways, I would take voltage measurements at the motor with the motor running to see if it is dropping too much during operation (I would expect ~11 V or better with the motor running). If it drops too much, you either have a high resistance connection or a suspect motor. After that I would bypass everything with a suitable fuse (based on the circuit breaker or fuse size) and see if you can raise the top on this bypass jumper. I would use 12 AWG. If it raises ok, you have a connection isue. If the fuse pops, the motor is probably bad.

FYI, my top gets the power from a 30amp circuit breaker on the firewall.

Larry, A wiring diagram in the '68 Service Manual shows the breaker.

Don't know if it makes a difference... mine is 69 vert.

Mine did not have a circuit breaker, only a fuse that kept blowing when i moved the top.

I looked there but couldn't find it there. Although, the way the stuff is organized it is not surprising. Anyway, assuming 30 amps is the right number, then I would jumper directly to the motor with a 30 amp fuse. You'll want to disconnect the wiring to the motor and power it directly. That way, the only component being tested is the motor itself. If you blow the fuse, then you know the answer. Remember, these motors are almost 50 years old, so having some shorted windings is not all that unexpected.

I forgot to mention the obvious but have you inspected your top mechanism to make sure nothing is bent, binding, etc. This would also be a good time to lubricate all joints. I use white lithium grease. Good luck.

I jury-rigged a 20amp circuit breaker into the fuse box so it would not keep blowing. Do you think I can get away with a 30amp? 1969 vert

Do you know what the wire size is between the fuse and the motor. That will dictate how high you can go. Some of you 69ers need to chime in because I am used to a resetable circuit breaker. What is the normal fuse size on a 69 vert?

x2. You might simply be blowing fuses because you're putting too small of a fuse in there. What size fuses have you been blowing? Fuse protects wiring from burning up. Period. It has no other purpose. If you're putting 10 and 15 amp fuses in there, and the motor draws 20 amps, that's why it's blowing.

I'm also not a 69 guy...but the 30 amp circuit breaker in our 68's is a heckuva good clue. The fact that you put a smaller 20 amp breaker into your 69 and it solved the problem, tells me your motor might be fine and you simply may have been running fuses of that size and they were probably too small. If memory serves, my 68 is fed by either 8 gauge or 10 gauge wire...I'm thinking 10 gauge. Conservatively speaking, and based on memory alone, that should probably be protected by a 30 amp breaker, or a 25 amp fuse.

So the million dollar questions are: What gauge is your wire, and what amp fuses was it blowing?

Also, have you by chance noticed the last topic on the FAQ page for convertibles? Doesn't say much, but gives a couple more clues.
https://firstgenfirebird.org/FAQ/conv/

Here's another very old topic:
https://firstgenfirebird.org/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=46723&page=1

Most important thing to recognize is that it seems your 69 is a completely different fuse setup than those of us with 67/68 circuit breaker models. So you're kinda at the mercy of other 69 convertible owners and schematics exclusively in order to get the help you're looking for. To avoid confusion I suggest you ignore all 67/68 owners such as me...LOL...our cars are COMPLETELY different in this respect...

If I'm remembering right, mine has a "power Acc." circuit breaker that runs the windows as well as the top and other things. But it is a self reseting 40-amp. breaker.

'69 Bird Convertible top electrical circuit did not have a fuse or circuit breaker. They have a shorting bar. It's shaped just like a cylindrical fuse, but it's solid metal. I removed mine (still have it) and replaced it with a 30 amp fuse. See page 12-23 of the 1969 Pontiac Service manual.

If that is the case, here is my read between the lines of what occured. Management wanted to "Cheapen" the car so removal of the resetable breaker was a no brainer, "Put a fuse in its place." Following that decision they discovered "Fuses are blowing, can't have that." Eureka, "Put a shorting bar in there, that won't blow." Problem solved.

I think you may have hit the nail on the head. Would it be safe to assume that the motor is the same from 1967-68-69? Then my red and green wires would be the same size as the 67 & 68. Then I should be able to put a 30amp fuse in there. How much worse could that be than the shorting bar?!?!

I find it nearly impossible to believe that Pontiac would simply put in a "shorting bar" and have an unfused circuit. Blatant fire hazard.

I would never put such an idiotic move past any shade-tree mechanic that may have touched the car over the course of the past 45+ years...

Keep in mind my 68 has a "shorting bar" also in one part of the fuse panel...more properly called a buss bar I believe. And it is factory original. But it ALSO has a circuit breaker elsewhere on that circuit, giving the necessary protection to prevent over current and fires.

So if someone's 69 has a shorting bar on a panel, and it is factory original (never assume this), it also means there is a circuit breaker somewhere in the circuit...or there SHOULD be a circuit breaker. All the repro houses sell the circuit breaker as being correct for 67 thru 69. I know that's not gospel, but it leads me to believe there probably is, or should be, a circuit breaker in the 69's somewhere. Maybe not plain as day on the firewall like our 67/68 models are, but how about under the left kick panel where I have found other circuit breakers for power windows, etc...need to remove some interior to find it.

The real answer to this question should be pretty darn easy to figure out with a comprehensive 69 wiring diagram from a service manual that shows convertible top circuit.

I need to ask again as I believe this to be the key to everything...and still hasn't been answered:

What gauge is the wire feeding the convertible top motor, and what size fuses were you blowing?

Sorry, I was blowing 20A fuses. I now have a 20A circuit breaker jury-rigged in its place. I will try to figure out wire size tonight. I assume you mean the red and green wires to the motor pump.

I currently have interior out, and left kick panel is pulled out of the way (too hard to fully remove).

Does someone have a pic of their circuit breaker on the firewall?

Also, 69 wiring diagram that I have does not have convertible circuit anywhere I can see.

Here is some that I took while I disassembled it.

That photo is a 68 and wont' do ya much good because 69 is different...I don't believe you have a circuit breaker on the firewall as shown in that pic.

20 amp fuses sound too small to me. I don't know what amperage that motor draws, but it has to be quite a bit. This might be a simple matter of someone putting a 20 amp fuse where a bigger one belongs. Doesn't your fuse box have printing on it for each slot suggesting the correct fuse size? My 68 does...

Yes I'm asking about the wire size going to the motor...red/green sounds correct. If you simply confirm wire size, you can use standard electrical amperage ratings for wire size, and make sure you put in a bigger fuse, but one that will not be so big as to allow the wire to heat up and melt.

As for wiring diagram, I know in my 1968 Service Manual the convertible circuit is not on the main pages with the rest of the large wiring diagrams. It's a tiny little diagram that's labeled "accessory circuits" or similar and is in a slightly different portion of the book. Not sure how 69 Service Manuals are laid out, but I can't believe that Pontiac left it out completely. Presumably you have a complete 69 Service manual you are referring to? It's gotta be in there somewhere...

As for left kick panel, my 68 is also equipped with power windows. I found some circuit breakers under the left kick panel tucked up in there somewhere...probably for my power windows. I was just guessing MAYBE they stuffed the 69's breaker for convertible top in there too. If it exists. I'm TOTALLY guessing...again I don't own a 69 so maybe I should just stop trying to guess...

It just seems this site doesn't get much traffic anymore. I find it hard to believe nobody around here with 69 Convertible understands exactly where/how this circuit is set up...it's gotta be pretty darn simple...switch, protection device, wires, and pump. Not sure what more there could be...

If it is a 10 AWG (or even 12 AWG), you should be OK with a 30 amp fuse. I will probably take a blast of crap saying 12 AWG is OK for 30 Amps, but consider that the wire basically rides along the car body as a massive heat sink. Also, cycling the top doesn't take all that long. So I think you are good to go.

I also would not put it past GM to yank the fuse and but a shorting link in place. Remember these circuits are only energized when the switch is actuated. Similar to your starter, it is also not fuse protected.

Here is what I believe to be my horn relay (in place of the convertible top motor fuse breaker). Also, the picture of my fuse box with my 20A circuit breaker jury-rigged into the upper left fuse. It is only labelled "Power Accy" with no Amp value

The black wire adjacent goes to the Switch on the dash.

Here is a pic of the shorting bar that I removed from the power accessory fuse box location of my 1969 Firebird convertible. I replaced it with a 30 amp circuit breaker. As far as some shade tree mechanic installing the shorting bar, I don't think so. The second shorting bar shown in the pic I removed from a 1969 Firebird convertible in a junk yard. Again, I reference page 12-23 of the 1969 Pontiac Service Manual which calls out the shorting bar. I did a ground up restoration on my car and did not uncover any fuses or circuit breakers in the convertible top circuit. I agree it's crazy if that's the factory set-up. That's why I installed the 30 amp circuit breaker. Finally, the red and green wires from the conv motor/pump are 12 gage.
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