Oh the money that I will burn in the next 12 months or so.

Almost have the car ready to remove the subframe. I had to cut out a welded in frame connector.

Some pics...keep the laughter and finger pointing down:
Camaro rear quarters...got to go!


lowly SBC...I know the fuellie heads are looked down on these days but I like being nostalgic. The chevy engine will likely stay...


Tail panel...someone wanted in the trunk...maybe I can patch this rather than swapping the entire panel?


I had to remove some of the work from the last restoration...you can almost still read Thunder Struck...what year was that a hit? Lots of filler on this panel...


More money...cowl shoulders are goners...floor work, trunk work...I think it may have been better to buy a finished car but what fun would that be!

Welcome,

Nice color. Lots of metal work, I with yah there. Hope you got her for cheap. If you go custom put what ever engine you like. SBC in a stock Firebird is a poor investment. IMO

My Coupe was in better shape than yours and by the time I cut out all the rust there was barely anything left to attach to.

I LOVE da birds but it's hard to get a return on your money.

I'm not worried about making money, after building a 'kit' car I'm ready to learn some new tricks!

I figure I'm only 4000 in sheet metal...I'll have a go at painting it myself.

I could be all in under 10 possibly and have a car worth 8.

Besides, my wife loves the car...she'll likely let me do another for her when this is done.

That's not so bad!

Cheers
Vic

Welcome. Could you do me a big favor? The moment I scrolled down to the firewall picture, it jumped out at me so fast that I almost fell out of my chair. What you have is a correct ’69-only master cylinder on your car, and they are 100% extinct. Not only is the master cylinder 100% extinct, but the knowledge base about the ’69-only master cylinder is extinct.

Here’s a picture of a correct ’69-only master cylinder. Please post a picture that better illustrates the fittings that have the red and blue plugs in my photo.

It’s late, I’m a lurker, and I had no intentions of posting anything, but I was so floored to see a correct master cylinder that I dug mine out from deep-freeze storage, took a shot and posted the picture, rather than hit the sack, where I was planning to be at this moment.

Again, please post at least one shot of the fittings, and I’ll make more comment later.

Amervo. I went out and looked at my 69's brake master and it looks exactly like the one in the photos above. If you need pictures I will try and post some. Just tell me what you need.

Marc

Master cylinder pics, hope it helps. If you need another let me know.

Right on dude, that's the spirit! I'm dedicating mine to my wife's future pension plan. You only get 1% in the bank so why not roll the dice with a Muscle car ehh?

Good luck with your restoration. There a lot of knowledgeable guys on this site to help you out if/when you need it.

Cheers
Brian

Did I say under 10k?

Let's add a roof, dash and cowl panel.

Every time I walk into the garage it costs $500 more.

Since there is no body tag on the car I sent away for the info package using the Vin...I'll try to rebuild it as close to factory. I also have the contact info for every owner since new...will attempt to track down the engine and trans...I do believe the new sub frame is for a camaro though, I'd have to find engine mounts for a Pontiac...

I think.

Time for this old dog to learn some new tricks!

Vic

Yikes, anything going to be left of it? Here is what's left of my coupe...

Maybe this would be a better start:

This is my "Sweetie" current project (Firedawg if Sweetie get's built). The signature is the before shot!

I'd consider the entire body but what fun would that be?
My wife isn't going to let me spend more than 1k a month on it...one panel at a time...

I dig deeper tomorrow. Will add more pics

Man! Mine was fed/up big-time, but at least it was a solid, rust-free chunk of fed/up metal, so the only tool it took was a bfh! Everyone has a game plan for their car. The previous owner’s game plan was, obviously, to see how bad he could f/it up.

>Just tell me what you need.<

Actually, it’s what you guys need. Those are extremely-rare correctly-configured parts, and they have been lost in history. I’m certainly going to revisit the topic; in fact, it should be a new post so that otto69’s resto post doesn’t get cluttered with off topic to his restoration project. As for the resto, when thunderstruck was new material on the radio, you could walk in any parts store and buy the correct master cylinder.

DO NOT get rid of this master cylinders. The 9 came with its own master cylinder. It DOES NOT interchange with its sister cars, and it’s very rare to have the correct part. Does anyone else have such a configuration on their 9?

I have bigger fish to fry at the moment, so I’ll get back to this topic. Mark, if you want to do some homework, the port openings are reversed on the 9 cylinder. The red cap is the small one and the blue cap is the large one. Fish around, using the red and blue caps as reference, and you’ll see what I’m talking about.

Amazingly, the Firebird god must have been watching, the soothsayer of the future. That is the box it came in, purchased sometime around ’92 or ’93, shortly after I moved back to MD from TX. It was a nice heavy box, I needed to reconfigure my transported Firebird junk, and I had assorted Firebird hardware stored in it. The number will skewer things, and I’ll bring that into discussion.

If you fish, make a new post, and post your findings. I’ll get back to it, but it may be after the holiday weekend because I have a lots stuffed in for the next couple of days. It’s not going to rain! Something must be wrong!

Looking at body cart plans...this car needs everything!

Took out windshield and started removing dash...pics of rust..

If I replace the dash top panel do I just cut out a 4 inch square around the VIN and weld it into the new one? I mean it's not VIN tampering if I'm trying to swap out a rusty panel...

Here are some frame cart plans.

One of the photos of completed carts within the plans shows it constructed with 2x2's rather than 2x3's.

Is that okay? mustn't weigh much?

Thanks,
Vic

Building a factory five was much cleaner than rebuilding a firebird.

Getting my shopping list ready for the body cart, may pick up steel tomorrow...it'll be good welding practice!
Have you all gone with the standard height? I'm 6'3 and thought I might [censored] a few inches in height to get it at a nicer working level...thoughts?

As far as I can tell this car has been white, light green, light blue and medium blue...

more deconstruction photos:

I started to remove the drivers side cowl shoulder, I'll be changing both inners and outers.


This beauty bit of extension cord was part of the now removed electrical, had a few header burns but I may just be able to wire a lamp with it some day. The harness shows a few melted spots...


Plan is to remove the remainder of the interior...just seats and a bit of trim left, then tackle a body cart and get to cutting.

I found a pretty clear resto thread on a camaro site. Any of you have a site or thread you consider the definitive Firebird restoration thread? I purchased the restore your camaro book, not terribly informative.

Thanks,
Vic

http://www3.telus.net/public/68bird/

i consider that you have some good things in it.

My body man brother in law came over yesterday for a look...

There was pointing...
There was laughing...

The car need every single panel...he thinks the rear inner on the passenger side might be okay and the frame behind the back seat looks good.

LOL

Should I start rebuilding it from the bottom up, front to back, back to front?

I'm going to do it...I have the time and permission from the wife.

Im in the same boat, although my Cowl and door skins might be salvagable, OH and the roof and Hood look okay...lol... if you find a good supplier of OER or something like that with panels that fit good, and a guy thats willing to ship to the Wet coast. let me know

I hear ya. But I finally realized my coupe was not worth doing either. When these cars start fetching $100k I will take another look as it does have a VIN tag.

I think your time would be better spent with a car body worth restoring. Use the parts with this car and a better donor car would be more practical.

You have the energy and the know-how, just need to better focus it.

Earlybird convinced me a few years ago that it's not worth you time to just throw time and money at a project. It's has to have some basis to get a return on your investment. The $$'s you spend at the beginning is the least you spend when it should be the most. Get the best car, type and condition you can and it should be less $$'s and time to restore and have a better return on your money.

I'm advocating that these projects will actually make money, I just hope to "get my money back" when I sell it in the future.

If I spent $200k on my coupe it would still be only worth $25k.
If I spent $50k on my vert I hope to most of it back within 5 years.

I 'm doing it for the challenge and the enjoyment and in the end hopefully have something left for the wife when I take the big nap!

you may be right, some people don't go into looking for a sale at the end.

My 68 is one of only 25 or 35 brought into canada in that configuration, its a rare car that could recoup some money at the end of the day. but i'm not looking to sell it, Im using the car as a learning experience and using it as a car i can feel comfortable driving to work everyday at the end of the build

replacement body panels are not stupidly expensive either. you can replace 90% of the car for about 3500$. yes that doesn't add in the bodyman work, but he has a brother in law for that purpose!

I totally agree with this. Gus put in writing what I have been thinking since the very 1st post. The other option might have been a Dynacorn shell, but the feedback is that original parts won't fit on one of those very well.

Well...to clarify my position in life...I'm 43 and retired. I'm not doing this for the money. I wish I had started life working on cars and now I have the chance to burn a little money doing it.

I'm not rich, but I can burn $500-$1000 a month every month without upsetting the wife. Besides, she prefers me to have a project in the garage enjoying a couple beers rather than being at a pub...which would cost me $500-$1000 a month anyway.

I'm going to save this bird...

Good news! I found solid sheet metal. The rockers are solid, the rear of the interior floor pan is perfect as is the interior of the quarters, roof frame...anything inside seems good. The moron before me did replace the floors with....I don't know what the floor panels were out of...but he did a terrible job, even welded the rear drivers side on top of the seat mount.
Also...if you were going to cut a square hole in the trunk why not just cut out the support while you're at it...I feel better about how much of a rookie I think I am, the guy before me sucked! Got to figure out that one but...

I fix...

Some pics...body cart next week for sure...I think I can get it ready for paint for 10K. Think of how good I'll look in it! Still waiting my on her PHS paperwork.

Is roofing tar structural?


Pics:

I'm on my second car that has needed nearly every panel.

After this one, I'll do another.

More pics in a couple days.

How's it going big guy?

Finished the body cart today. It makes for good welding practice. Pictures tomorrow as I'm relaxing on the sofa now.

Finished the cart and thought I'd have a go at putting the body on it, so I would have to remove front frame and rest axle....better mow the lawn first
..right...

Mow lawn. Go inside for water...put on flip flops to let the feet cool off a bit and step outside...
Go to garage and grab cart to roll it outside....it rolls out over the lip of my garage...pulls a wheely and...

Rips the toenail right off my big toe!

No flip flops...and no jogging with the wife for a few weeks...

Cheers!

One other thing. Went on a firebird tour yesterday to check out a couple abandoned birds. A 67 all original 3.8 litre manual in shed in pretty bad shape and a 69 esprit in reasonable shape in a garage. Left a note on the 69...

The 67 straight 6 had a 4 barrel on it. The 69 had a big g block swapped in.

Enjoy

Okay...took a couple days off the garage to allow the toe to heal a bit. No more flip flops in the garage.
This is where I am at as of this evening.



The front leaf spring mount is not going to be easy to remove, I guess its a cage bolt on the back??? One turns freely the others are rusted solid. Hopefully I tackle this tomorrow and get the body on the cart.

I've spent some time underneath...any sane person would send it to the wreckers...there are a couple other cheap firebirds I could pick up that would be a better starting point but I hate to quit on her.

I'll have to pick the brains of those that came before me...am I best to work this resto from front to back? bottom to top? Where should I start swapping panels?

I picked up a cheap plasma cutter this week, a MAX20. I know its small but it cuts through sheet metal like a dream and drags like butter...$200 with some consumables.

Cheers,
Vic

You have to cut the bolt off or cut open the inside floor to get at it. Plasma the mother!

SALE http://www.ebay.com/itm/1968-Firebird-Co...0c2&vxp=mtr

I know I could get a dynacorn body, there was actually a guy near here that had an all new 68 coupe body for $3500...but I'm doing a 69. I'd rather try to save what I can, there is some interior structure that is good...amazingly.

I'm going to have a go at the leaf spring shortly. I hope to have the body on the cart this weekend.

leaf springs are free, plasma cutter makes this sort of thing easy. on the passenger side I was able to remove a bit of fake floor aka bondo to get at one of the bolts.

Did I say this car needs everything? It's ROTTEN!

I'm going to put together a list with prices and get a build plan going.

a quick list has me around 5k before shipping. That doesn't include doors which I still need to put on the list. Add 2k for what I don't realize and I'm in the 8-10k ballpark just on the body...

We are going to test my wife's love for me gentlemen.

I'm sure I can find better pricing on some of this stuff but this is what I have so far:


67-69 Firebird Coupe Inner Rocker Panel LH $109.95
67-69 Firebird Coupe Inner Rocker Panel RH $109.95

67-69 Firebird Coupe Roof Skin $329.95

67-69 Firebird Lower Cowl Side Panel RH inner/outer Assy $164.95
67-69 Firebird Lower Cowl Side Panel LH inner/outer Assy $164.95

69 Firebird Inner Cowl Panel Assembly w/o A/C $329.95

68-69 Firebird Upper Dash Panel Patch 10"L X 55"W $129.95

68-69 Firebird Firewall w/o AC $439.95

67-69 Firebird Floor Pan Assembly 1-piece with center/rear/ under seat braces included $399.95

68-69 Firebird Rear Frame Rail LH $229.95
68-69 Firebird Rear Frame Rail RH $229.95

69 Firebird Gas Tank With Filler Neck $186.95

69 Firebird Coupe LH Quarter Panel OE Style $399.95
69 Firebird Coupe RH Quarter Panel OE Style $399.95

67-69 Firebird Coupe Outer Rocker Panel LH OE Style $82.95
67-69 Firebird Coupe Outer Rocker Panel RH OE Style $82.50

69 Firebird Tail Panel $307.95

69 Firebird Complete Trunk Floor Assy $349.90

Clearly your insane ... have your people contact out people for an intervention ... LOL

Seriously, these uni-bodies F-body cars are not as easy as we would hope they are to weld together.

I've been watching this space more than 3 years and I've many projects fail. They designed these cars quickly back in the early 60's . They wanted them fast and light. If you compare my 68 F-body to my 65 Big Pontiac body you would see a BIG difference. Everything panel comes together light a jigsaw puzzle mounted on a solid frame. Sure it's a heavy car body, but you can put humpty back together much easier.
The "body frame" of F-body body is made up from the body panels themselves.

Most of the repro panels you buy today will not fit 100% so your forever trying to get a bad panel to fit in with your other good panels (typically your original body). You are now at the point of assembling your entire car based on 80-95% repro body panels.

Anyone can learn to weld and thus weld humpty back together again. But when your ready to open your doors and close your hood and truck better allow for a lot of "room for error".

Just check the net for F-body's for sale with the search terms "all panels replaced, ready for paint".
After seeing more than 30 of these ads it became clear to me that a lot of projects were failing at the "ready for paint" stage. A professional "body man" is probably been brought in to complete the project. His quote is sky high and the guy who has spent $$$ already cannot put anymore in to it because he's way over budget already.

By the way, I define "way over budget" as the point on which the wife will not tolerate any more good money thrown in for bad.

I understand why you want to save the car, I have one too. I hope to one day assemble that one as well but 2 things must happen first.

1. I have proven to myself that I can assemble one of these cars back to original look and fitment
2. Price tag for these cars go up 100%+. When $50k is the average price, my coupe get's put on the body frame.

Anyway, getting to be looking like a book ... I think you get the idea...

We love ya, and will support no matter what you decide to do. Just thought it was a good time to turn your "Check project" warning light on.

I love this. Good points.

I told my wife today I wanted to buy $8000 worth of sheet metal and she gave me the nod.

I'll only be into it for 12k at that point and if I have to sell it worth scrap I'll only lose 11800!

I'm in need of a project and I hate to quit...I can't until I'm beat...I haven't even started.

There are lots of threads of guys rebuilding these and I'm going to give it a try.

I'm not going to cut the car up. I'm going to attempt to take one piece out of the puzzle at a time, swap new and move to the next.
We shall see, stay tuned!

Its on the body cart. The the firewall and kickers have been done, shoddy welding which means the body is sitting on a bulb of weld on the drivers side. I'll lift the car and grind it tomorrow.

The floor patching that was done in the past is 50/50. I may not need the entire floor. Trunk yes though.

The last guy simply did a crap job of trying to fix it...but I might save myself a couple thousand if I can fix his mistakes.

We shall see!