Hi,
Sorry for digging this argument up again, but I am new to this site and have read some heated discussions regarding this in the past.. I am in Canada and I recently purchased a1969 hardtop, that has Canadian PHS documentation that I find confusing.

The Canadian car Invoice custom's form dated 10/28/68 states "F/B 400 R/A 348"

The one page of information printed by PHS indicates "L74 ENGINE, RAM AIR III (PONTIAC)", it also indicates option "W66 PACKAGE FORMULA OPTION"

The reproduction window sticker states "Firebird 400 RAM AIR CONSISTS OF: 4BBL 400 RAM AIR V8- CHROME AIR CLEANER, ROCKER COVERS & OIL FILLER CAP-....."

The car has the numbers matching WQ 400 engine and M21 Close ratio 4 speed.

I am not sure what the rear end ratio is at this time.

There is no T42 Ram Air 611 option listed for the car, nor is there one installed on the car.

Questions:

Did option 611 exist early in the production year, or was it later when the terminology HO was introduced?

Is it possible that early production 1969 Ram Air Cars could have, like the previous years', had the Ram Air Inlet supplied in the trunk as a dealer installed option, and given our cold Canadian weather it was never installed?

Interestingly the issue (print) date in the bottom left hand corner of the "Master" Order form is 5-13-69. This form indicates engine code 348 as a 400HO and has the 611 option separate from this engine, however, this edition of the Master form is 7 months after this car was shipped to Canada. Was there a different, earlier Master order form?

Has anyone ever seen code W66 indicated as a "FORMULA PACKAGE" or does anyone know what it means?

How should this car be classified, as an HO car or a RAM Air car?

I don't know why I haven't joined sooner, I also have a 1968 400 Convertible and a 1973 SD Trans AM AUTO (White with Saddle)but no screaming chicken on the hood

Thanks

The WQ block code was a carryover from the manual 68 HO Firebird. YW was the code for the 68 auto HO and the 69 auto.

The 68 HO and the 69 RA III have the same cam, compression, long branch manifolds. The 348 code is the RPO for HO/RA III.

For 69 there was technically no 400 HO but there was a 350 HO with #48 heads (same heads as RA IIII 400) I have read and heard that some 69 Firebirds with the RPO 348 and WQ block came without RPO 611 (ram air pans)

The Ram air pans RPO 611 were typically (and historically) shipped in the trunk for all ram air Firebirds. The package consisted of upper and lower pans, lid, open hood scoops..mounting hardware etc..and installed at dealer.

You have 611 RPO. You have a RAI III Firebird.

W66 did not come out until 70

Hi Banshee,

Thanks for your extremely quick response.

I am a little more confused now thought, as I thought I read in earlier discussions that the RAM AiR III inlet was factory installed in 1969.

I might have left some confusion in my question, but although the PHS documents use the terminology RAM AIR III, there is no evidence of this car being manufactured with option code 611.

Any thoughts on the W66 Formula Package?

I have been researching the web quite a bit and I now realize that UPC W66 is the Firebird 400 Option 345. Having said that has anyone seen it described as a Formula Package?

Also, on my master order form the L78 348 code is described as a 400 HO 4 BBL. V8

The only mention of ram air is on code 611 and the RAM Air IV on the special equipment order form.

However on the attached link of a Pontiac Option book for dealers the L78 348 is described as RAM Air

Now I am totally confused

Forgot to post the link

http://www.musclecarfilms.com/images/1969_Firebird_-_Option_List_1_.jpg

No

I have never owned a 69..so I don't know nor have ever seen the PHS zone copy for 69. So...

The W66 was used for all 400 Firebirds if I'm not mistaken. It wasn't until 70 that the W66 used the moniker "Formula".

My one 68 has RPO 345..my HO is 348. Since in 69 there was no 400 HO as advertised, 348 for the most part has always been referred to as a RAIII in literature possibly I believe it shares same block code as the RAIII Trans Am), I believe they carried the 348 RPO over to 69 as the engines were the same (68/69). In 68, you could get a 400 (345) 400 HO/Ram Air (348) 400 Ram Air (347). Since the HO was technically carried over from 68...the 69 348 code replaced the HO....So, since it was the same engine, it was considered an HO (because it was) with the addition of 611 which is the Ram air pans which made it a RAIII. I don't know what the RPO was for RAIV. You also had a Trans Am RPO with either the III or IV.

I believe the HO/RAIII shared the same block code thus the HO/RAIII for 348.

So...one could order either a Firebird or Trans Am with a RAIV.

However....the caveat is that I heard of a few examples (but never actually seen) 69 400 348 code Firebirds without ram air pans. We debated this about 8 years ago and my position was (based on what I've read and heard) that absent the 611 ram air pan being on the PHS that it was an HO. If the PHS has the 611..its considered a RA III. Published literature shows the 348 RPO ad HO/RAIII so this leads me to believe that absent the 611 ram air pans...its an HO. If it has 611 on the billing it's a RAIII...as both share the same WQ block code which in turn has the same cam, heads, carb, long branch manifolds..

So...absent a 611 on the billing...I say it's an HO since it's the same engine as the 68 HO. I do not believe the 611 was an automatic default if choosing the 348 code. Perhaps salesmen who had sold Pontiacs saw the 348 code and didn't put 2 and 2 together and pick the 611...or perhaps the buyer chose not to get the open scoops and Ram air pans opting for the closed scoops.

I will try and contact Jim tomorrow and ask for his clarification.

Now that I read what I wrote...been up since 5am...

I am going to contradict myself here..now that the brain is functioning..I think what the 348 is...if ordering a Firebird HO, the 348 code is 348. The same block code (entire engine) was used for the RA III Trans Am with the addition of 611 to make it an inclusive RA III.

I believe I misspoke as I stated there was no HO for 69 as there was conflicting info because of the 348 HO/RA III on the billing history. I think that the Ram Air III shared the same block codes (WQ and YW) for both HO and Ram Air.

Sorry for opening mouth before thinking...but i will have a definite answer for you tomorrow from Jim at PHS if someone else hasn't put me in my place before then.