My RHS muffler hangar mount has been pulled through the sheet metal. I assume there were cage nuts welded on the topside(?)

Any ideas for a repair that doesn't involve a welder? I can't use a bolted connection because there's no access to the top of the sheet metal (it's an enclosed space behind the rear seat).

One of these?



McMaster

Or this?

Lots of nutplate and JB weld options for you. Since you are doing an unauthorized repair, just go with what works for now. Large sheetmetal nutplate and bolt hardware is as close as your local Lowes/Home Depot.

Long run, you need a welder to patch that area up.

I'll vouch for not being able to reach the back side. I added duals when the car was orginally single. There's a tapped backing plate from the factory if the exhaust was originally on that side. I ended up just screwing into the sheet metal on the side with no backing plate and it's held up fine up to now. If there's a backing plate, you should be able to drill and tap larger holes.

My car's previous owner had the most "creative" idea of all. He used 3/8" x 2" lag bolts. In fact, he didn't even deal with the inaccessible area ... he just drove 'em up through the floorboards!

- Jake

I've never encounterd a factory dual setup, so I have no clue as to how they hang. If it's a traditional aftermarket set up, it's held in place with a self tapping bolt, without a nut. The problem with a nutclip arrangemnt is that there is no way to access the area to install one.

One solution would be an oversize self threaded bolt. If you cannot find an oversized bolt, you can take a machiene thread bolt, saw down through the center of the threaded area, then crush the opening shut. This will provide a tapered end, allowing you to wallow the bolt in the hole.

Yet another option is a threaded insert. One version of a threaded insert is installed in the same fasion as a pop rivet. Kinda' like a helicoil, except that it's crushed in the hole like a pop rivet.

Another version crushes in the hole, but it has a specail tool that holds it in place, and a bolt is ran through the threaded area and drawn up, crushing the instert into the hole.

So it was doubled and tapped, eh? All that's left are a couple of puckered holes the size of a quarter. Oh yeah, and an additional hole about that size that some knucklehead drilled through below the seat to put a bolt and nut in there. No sealant - no wonder the cockpit always smelled like exhaust.

Nash - I have the feeling every fix I do is an 'unauthorized' repair.

Is JB strong enough to support the exhaust in tension? If I made up a drilled and tapped bottom-side plate to cover the holes could I 'glue' it on with JB? I've never used the stuff.

No, JB is not strong enough to hang alone. Too much weight and vibe. I meant you could use JB to hold a nutplate in place, if you could get the nutplate to grab some skin.

Q, what scares me is that someone took the time to draw those connectors. Can you please locate the Ren and Stimpy version?

If all you want to do is safely secure the pipe, use a "U" clamp and wrap it around the pipe.Get a generic muffler hanger(a rubber style with many holes in it and a metal hook end) and slip the metal hook end in through the "U" clamp and tighten it down.Now drill out a hole (tap the hole if you wish)in your rear frame rail and secure it with a threaded bolt and washer.It will work as i have mine this way.

David

This method is the cat's @$$, and it's the best system ever invented to repair blind bolts. These are designed specifically for high stress applcation, and you could install a chin-up bar with it, so an exaust system would be a light duty job.

The top and bottom are the tool that holds the fastener in place. The top shows the slot that holds the fastner, and the bottom shows the fastener loaded in the tool.



The inside is the fastners, one before crush and one after crush.

With the fastener inserted in the hole, you tighten the bolt, and the fastener crushes in place.

This would take quite a bit of force to rip out the metal behind, and the fastner is made of steel, not aluminun.

Merv, I was looking for something like that when I did mine. Where do you get them? One hanger on my bird is just hanging off sheet metal screws.

Sorry Bob. I overlooked the post, thus didn't see your question.

The tools and inserts were "shop supplies." (Everything was top quality because they didn't like things falling apart.) Stolen is the first thing that comes to many minds when you say shop supplies, but they were very liberal with our use of shop supplies for personal use: Provided that it was for personal use, we could help ourselves to whatever because the money collected by the customer's shop supplies charge, exceeded the total useage of shop supplies.

I would think that Kent Industries or CRLawerence would be the source. The problem is that neither one of them are very retail-sale frenindly.

A threaded-set rivet tool would work well too, but I don't think they have the same @$$bone as this insert.

Sure, get me all excited then dash my hopes. Maybe I'll check McMaster Carr.

Me too Merv! I got pretty excited about your post due to numerous nutplate failings on my bird!

That set looks like it could be used for a wide variety of jobs.

McMaster Carr has some riv nuts that look a lot like the ones in the photo, but don't have flats, called "slotted-body rivet nuts". Harbor freight has a tool that looks like a glorified pop rivet gun for riv nuts.

Sorry, but when I added to the thread, I never gave it a thought as to one gets such a gizmo' other than swiping it.

I have had them for years, and it's not a real high dollar tool--at least I don't think it is.

Maybe there are different types of thread-sets (pop rivet guns) but the thread set fastener doesn't seem as if it would be as strong. The shop I was at was major serious about flawless work, and sh!t just couldn't fall apart. So you could chain up a gorillia with one of these things.

Anyway, the pop rivet thing seems to have a flimsy flange, a ridge like area that compresses. So it's hard to say how strong it would be. Also, if I remember correctly, the rivet set costs something like $60, even at harbor freight.

These look like what you showed, but you use a poprivet type of tool, with a threaded rod, $16.99 Harbor Freight.

I've seen that before, Bob. I think we used them on specific locations on our aircraft cowlings. You think 5/16ths is as high as they go?

That's all they have listed in McM-C. The second ones on the list would be great for hanging really heavy pictures on the wall or keeping that pesky towel rack from pulling out of the wall.

I wonder how big a hole they'll fill. I believe it's typically 1/4" bolts holding the exhaust, but the torn-through holes are probably over an inch wide.

Sounds like you need a more radical repair method, Joe. Are you using stock hangers? If so, they're usually bolted at two diagonal locations and there's 4 or 5 holes in the hanger. Could you bolt it in the opposite diagonal locations (add two more holes)?

If the threadsets are as stout as mine, it will take some major mo-jo to crunch the rivet, but that would be the way to go.

I have 2 sizes, 1/4 and 5/16 and the handle is notched for the different sizes, and the 5/16 is shown in the picture. The insert od is 7/16, a little more, about 15/32 in the "split" area. Full crush is right at an inch.

An inch seems like a large hole for a bolt rip-out. A study was conducted and it found that the majority of people do an incredibally lousy job at guestimating an inch, with most people seriously short-changing an inch.

The tool Bob shows is the ticket. Maybe not, but check your measurements on the damage because an inch seems like a lot of hole leftover from a pulled-out bolt.

Your experience serves you well. You can see in the picture below that the holes are well under an inch.



Here's the mount that's still in good shape. It almost looks like the bad mount had a top nut that's gone - there's no sign of threads at all.



I'll probably relocate the holes per Bob's advice and use either a threaded insert or a stud insert. The old hols will get a dab of RTV to seal. Will post when it's working. Thanks for the help.

Seeing that we're on exausts as the subject.



The header unbolted without issues. I did have to remove the starter and lift the engine off its left mount about an inch because the header jambs against the power steering box. (It doesn't anymore, but it's b/s that you have pretty much crush a runner to mif.)

The problem was the bolts on the collector/reducer. When I did the pukey job on the gaskets, I became aware of the problem with the left header's collector/reducer.

It wasn't a case of corrosion. They were fused together and to the collector/reducer. Solid metal! And it wasn't as if they were welded when the exaust installer welded the flange/ring to the reducer. The fusion seemed more like they were subject to electrical current--such as how arc welding occurs--more so than welded when the installer did the system. I have delt with a lot of frozen fasteners, but these were unlike anything I had ever seen. I did the other side a while ago: I cut the nuts off, and tapped the bolts out. Maybe it was caused by the electrical transmission when the installer did the system.

Can you spell sux? I was able to cut the bottom nuts off with a wizz wheel. On the top one, however, I had to use a die grinder and a carbide cutter because there wasn't enough clearance.

After cutting off the nuts, the system was still attached rock solid. Between hammering chiseling and a bf pry bar, I eventually managed to break the fusion (The inside holes of the flanges are shiney metal.) After I got the exaust broke loose, the bolts remained in the header.

By then I was pretty ugly. I don't get ugly when doing mechanical work because murphy's law is a law we must obey, and if you cannot obey it, you really need to find another occupation or hobby.

I was planning on pulling the header anyway, to do a hammer to fit and to install gaskets, and I had been rolling around under the car--of course all shrapnel was directed straight toward my face. I had my fill with cutting grinding wearhing a sheild and ear muffs, so rather then trying to contend with the fused bolts, I yanked the header. After the header was out, I did manage to wind them out with a 1/2" breaker bar.

Hey ash, when you're ready to do headers, I'm primed to go, building my header skills because I mock fitted the header about a half dozen times when I hammered it to fit.

I had a really enjoyable day today.