I was about to pull the trigger on the 200-r4 my self and ended up buying another car instead.
Tons of post in the archives on the PY site. Jake has chimed in there in the past. Reading up on his comments he know every weakness in the trans and can give you the best bang for the buck approach. He also had some tricks that he came up with him self that no one else does. He also mentions that he has had to rebuild "other" big name builders tranny's when they didn't hold up.
Here are some notes that I have gathered on the subject (Sorry it very long):
Parts you should consider mandatory in the build are: hardened stator support hardened pump vane rings extra clutch in the 4th pack (must machine housing .080 to make space for extra clutch) one piece teflon shaft seals GN size or larger servo .500 or .570 and .400 boost valves Shift kit (not hurst or b&m) hardened sun shell (standard on 87 and up) billet forward drum-I seriously doubt the stocker will hold for long in a heavy, torquey car Raybestos Blue or Alto Red Eagle directs Oversized Alto Red Eagle band Rollerised low/rev housing to reduce parasitic loss and heat deep trans pan + bottom feeding filter (I made my own deep pan out of two stockers and my own bottom feeding sump using copper pipe and a th200 filter)
Mods required: Dual feeding the directs Enlarging pump passages .060 hole in direct drum
The 200 in my Goat has been in service for the past 15 years. It now has all of the billet internals from Bruce at PTS, but the car went 11.50s for years with all of the basic upgrades and stock hard parts. Things like the hardened stator support, proper pump clearances and internals, wide Alto band, and billet servo are all a must. The biggest thing I did to improve the trans was the deep pan and the botom feed 700-r4 filter. I could launch the car on the STREET hard enough to slosh the fluid away from the stock filter and the line pressure would drop in HALF! It would happen midway through low gear and during 1-2 shift. I had gone through several intermediate bands because they were taking such a beating. The line pressure gauge was the savior on this deal. The deep Art Carr pan and filter combo totally eliminated the pressure drop, and I have not hurt another band since.
I really love my 200.
I disagree with Cliff. In my experience, and Cliff stated it, you MUST know the hydraulics on these units to build one to hold up. A stock one with a deep pan, stock GN servo, and proper VB setup will handle a mid 12 second car.
The sun shell and stators on the early cars were problematic. GM still hasn't really fixed their sun shell issue on the 4L60 series (700, 4L60E, 4L65E, 4L70E). The aftermarket has fixed the issue with the "Beast" sun shell but it's 3 times the price of the hardened sun shell for the 200-4R.
There was never any issue with the direct drum in the 200-4R. The forward drums are where the problem is at in an application over 400 HP. The design is weak in stock form. Some have tried to weld up the area where the input shaft goes in it, so it isn't so deep, then heat treat the drum. This is OK, but the real fix is a new shaft in the drum. Only a couple of guys make this specialty drum. I use it on most of the 200-4Rs that I build, but most of the units I build are for 500+ HP.
The clutches in the direct drum of a 200-4R are the direct or 3rd gear clutches, not the 3-4 clutches like a 4L60. They are the weakest clutch pack but can easily be modified to handle 800 HP. One of their issues is fluid starvation due to the filter design. A deep pan setup fixes this. The other is apply area. When using the billet drum you can make hydraulic modifications that make them bulletproof. The 4L60 trans have the same issue with apply area, and you can't do the same mods due to the design, all you can do it increase the line pressure, which causes other problems such as increased pump wear.
The 200 isn't extremely expensive to build. The triuck is to find a builder familiar with them.
They do get to a point of diminishing returns like any other unit. I try to talk customers into a 4L80E if they are truly over 600 HP or will be. As a point of comparison, I try to talk them out of the 4L60 trans at 450-500 HP.
Neither is the trans of choice in a 8-9 second car, the 4L80E is...
A 200-4R also has the proper bolt pattern for a Pontiac which IMO makes it worth it for many applications over the adapter plate.
I warranty my units at over 600 HP without any second thoughts if they have the billet parts.
The hydraulics are easy once you know the tricks. Some of the tricks are carried over from TH400 builds...Others are specific to the 200-4R.
Anybody that has a basic understanding of hydraulics and does a small amount of research can determine why the 200 has some very strong advantages over a 4L60 in the clutch holding capacity.
It is common knowledge that the 4L60 series transmissions have issues with the 3-4 clutch pack. Even the latest greatest clutch materials haven't been a total fix for this in cars that are drag raced frequently, it is simply an apply area/clutch friction surface area issue. UNless you have figured out a way to increase either of those beyond what everyone else is doing, you are still limited by this. AFAIK Rossler is probably the only one who has actually increased the friction area on the clutches by doing some machining on the drum and using different frictions.
The 200 has the ability to easily increase the clamping force on the 3rd gear clutches, by over 2 times....
I can also build the 700s, 4L60E's cheaper than I can a 200-4R but I recognize their weaknesses and don't try to sell them at those power levels.
There are only about a dozen guys in the country who know the tricks to the 200-4R. If you don't use one of the good builders, you aren't going to have any luck with them...
Bowtie Overdrives isn't one of them....
At 400 HP you are borderline for the forward drum upgrade.
Other than that a 200-4R with a GN servo and deep pan with a valve body kit would work excellent.
I always upgrade them to a 3 clutch overdrive setup because it is an almost free upgrade, one extra friction ($2) and machining on the apply piston (time or $10 from my machinist, but I drop off 5-10 at a time and we already have a setup to hold it on the lathe)
My valve body mods are simple and very effective, it doesn't take much and most of it is the same as you would do to a 700-r4 or any other trans, but there are a couple of "little" things that make the difference between a successful 200-4R builder and the guy who is afraid of them.
A well built 200-4R doesn't die easily...
The stock pieces had a few issues that caused them to die fast. The stock band wasn't big enough (same issue the early 700s had), the servo wasn't large enough (same issue as the 700...) the sun shell and stators weren't heat treated (same issue as the 700), the pump rings would break in high rpm applications (same as a 700, exactly the same parts, interchangeable), they needed larger boost valves (same as the 700, interchangeable), they didn't have the valve body calibration for performance usage (same issues as the 700). Anybody see a trend here?
The other trait they both share is the shafts breaking off. The 700's don't really have this issue USUALLY until you get over 450 HP, or a heavy vehicle with big tires. The 700s/4L60Es will break the input shaft at the lube holes, they will break the input drum (aluminum) where the steel input shaft comes in. They also both share a less than ideal amount of clutch surface area (700 is actually worse here) and less than ideal amount of clutch apply area for the 3rd gear clutches on the 200, and the 3-4 clutches on the 700/4L60E.
It isn't a big deal to add extra clutches to the stack on either trans, although the 200 has proven to not really need it, and the 700/4L60Es do. More on that... It is an easy modification on the 200-4r to "dual feed" the 3rd gear clutches. Basically a free modification, the only caveat is that when you do so, you make the shift from 2nd to 3rd gear more positive. Even when you back off the valve body calibration to soften this shift, it will break the snout off the forward drum as I posted above. That is a particularly weak area b ecause if you look at the factory piece, the pilot hole in the front is drilled deeper than the splines on the outside. If you look at the cross sectional area between the splines and the pilot hole, it's about 3/16" thick including the splines high area. Not very thick.. So it easily snaps off as shown. If you look at the aftermarket drum next to it, the splines have a taper to the shaft, and the hole isn't drilled past the splines, it is about half as deep, so where the splines terminate, is much stouter and the material is TOUGH. They simply don't break there anymore.
So when we dual feed the 200-4R direct clutches (which is a common mod on high performance TH350's, TH400's, etc.) it takes care of the clutches.
You have 3 ways to make a clutch pack capable of increased torque capacity.
1. Increase the pressure. This is done on most performance transmissions, and is a part of many "shift kits" or more correctly stated valve body kits. You increase the spring tension on the pressure regulator spring and the overall transmission pressure is increased. You increase the size of the boost valves, and the pressure under throttle is increased. You make additional modifications to the TV up/down/limit circuits to increase pressure under certain operating conditions.
2. You increase the amount of friction material surface area. Bigger clutch plates or more of them. It is usually very difficult to increase the diameter or facing of a clutch plate. You are limited by the overall diameter of the trans case, the drums that contain the clutches, etc. It IS done in some instances, but it is one of the more expensive ways to go about it. You add friction plates. If you have a stock capacity of 6 plates, and you increase it to 7, you have increased the capacity IN THEORY. The true capacity may actually be less due to having to use thinner steels that warp easier. So the holding capacity may be higher, but the shifting capacity could be less. This is a fine line that builders have to walk and play with. Keeping the steels adequate thickness while getting as many frictions in place as possible in problematic units like the 700/4L60E. You can get 9 frictions (two sided) in the 700-R4/4L60E drum relatively easily but a count of 7 or 8 has proven to be best for most builders.
3. You increase the apply area. This is very easy to do in some specific instances. The TH350, TH400, 4L80E, and 200-4R are these instances, specifically the 3rd gear clutch pack for all of these units. 3rd gear clutches are also used in reverse. GM designed the drum so that the piston has two seperate apply areas. One area is used for 3rd, and both are used in reverse. We modify the hydraulic circuits to use both apply areas as one in 3rd gear, called dual feeding. Very simple mod that should be done on any performance TH350, TH400, 4L80E, and any 200-4R with the billet drum. It should not be done on the 200 without the drum... In other cases this is a very difficult method to increase clutch capacity, the 700-R4/4L60E is one. There just isn't enough room to make the apply piston a larger diameter, and it is relatively small on the 700/4L60Es.
So on the 700/4L60Es you best option to increase the capacity of the clutch pack is to go for an 8 count clutch pack IME. Some very high end units have modifications to the drum for larger clutches. We are talking about $4000 units. (Much more than a full billet 200-4R).
There is one other way to increase the capacity, and much of it is opinion based, and that is the type of friction material that is used. Some have higher co-effiecients of friction under static or dynamic conditions. Certain clutches work better in certain applications.
These are several of the reasons why the 200-R4 does actually make a better unit in built up form. It also has a much more rigid center support (actually has 2 internally) where the 700/4L60E is longer and only has one. So the internals of the 200-4R are going to run more centered and create less stress on the bushings and parts.
All the mods that the 700 gets on a performance build are used on the 200-4R. Most of the parts are the same. .500 boost valve, larger reverse boost valve, upgraded pressure regulator spring, hardened pump rings, 10 vane or 13 vane pump. The parts listed are interchangeable between the two units.
Then the hardened sun shell mention by Cliff. It is bulletproof and came stock on the newer units. It's $13 my cost new. As opposed to about $45 for the Beast sun shell that should be put in any 700/4L60E build. Hardened stator is about $15 for either unit. A good band for either unit is about $25. A larger servo for the either in "billet" is about $80-100 depending on what brand etc. The 200-4R has ONE servo, the 700 has two seperate pieces that go in the same bore. The 700 however CAN usually get by with just a "Corvette" servo which is a $8-9 part, and the stock 4th gear servo for many applications.
In a 450 HP application, I can build the 700/4L60Es cheaper. 98% of the time, they will live a long reliable life at this power level, even if driven hard/raced. At over 450 HP, if the unit is actually raced and driven hard, it becomes a "maintenance item". It will have to have 3-4 clutches replaced occasionally. It will occasionally experience a hard part failure, typically an input shaft/drum. At over 450 HP, the 200-4R with simply a billet drum and aftermarket billet servo for hard parts will provide reliable service. If it fails before the length of time it took me to write this then I put it together wrong or it was installed wrong. As stated the TV cable must be setup right. The converter must be installed correctly, and it has to be properly assembled and calibrated. If it's over 450 HP it MUST be dual fed for the directs to live IME. My experience with the 200-4R in my personal ride ('69 Chevelle, 427 BBC) was that being a mid 12 second car, with a stock pan, it would cavitate on the 2-3 shift because of the acceleration. You MUST have the deep pan at faster than a 13.0, or a specially designed pickup and a "dam" installed in the case near the park linkage.
I drove my car hard with the 200-4R for 2 yrs. I used it as a testing platform to find the weak points in the 200-4R and get the hydraulics figured out. I didn't have any hard parts issues, or any clutch failures. I did heat check the directs with the stock pan but it shifted fine when I freshened it.
I just freshened a 200-4R from a GN that runs high 10's. I built it a year ago. It had a converter issue so customer brought it in for a checkout. Band still looked new, 3rd gear clutches still looked new, it had some damage from debris on the center support sealing area. The billet shaft did not even have any scoring (HARD).
I speak and do business relatively often with big name transmission guys. Chris at CKPerformance (spoke to him twice today...one of the innovators for 200-4R hard parts), one of Hughes Performance senior trans guys, John Kilgore (occasionally, Godfather of the TH400 IMO) and other noted builders in the community. I get to pick their brains, talk shop, and compare notes. They've all seen the same things. JakeShoe
Also use the updated sun gear shell that takes the bearing instead of the plastic washer.
Good news on choosing a 1986 model, the factory had made several changes to them and by 1986 they were much tougher than earlier versions.
A standard 200-4R in 1986 would be the same unit used in the GN. The only real difference would be the shift program and servo that applies the band. They may have also used a different torque converter for the GN.
Have your 200 built with a good shift kit and GN or billet servo and it will be fine for what you are doing. Of course you have the option to make some additonal hard part upgrades during the build.....Cliff
The TH200-4R can be identified by its odd-shaped 16-bolt pan, which roughly resembles the state of Nevada (check your maps), and the transmission pan bolts have 13mm heads. The TH200-4R was used in GM rear-wheel-drive cars equipped with the 231 Buick, 301 Pontiac, the Oldsmobile 307, as well as the 350 gas and 350 diesel engines from 1981-'90. Many Chevrolet 267 and 305 engines also used the TH200-4R with a multi-fit bellhousing. You can look for one in any of these vehicles with those engine sizes:
1981-'88 Buick LeSabre and Electra RWD 1981 Century 1981-'87 Regal 1981-'90 Cadillac Fleetwood, Deville and Brougham 1982-'90 Chevrolet Impala and Caprice 1981-'88 Chevelle, Monte Carlo, Malibu and El Camino 1984-'87 GMC Caballero 1982-'90 Olds Delta 88, 98 and Custom Cruiser 1983-'88 Olds Cutlass 4-4-2 and Supreme 1983-'89 Pontiac Bonneville, Parisienne and Safari Wagon 1981 Pontiac Firebird with 301 1984-'87 Pontiac Grand Prix
The transmission identification is on a plate on the right side of the case towards the tailshaft. This ID tag is usually held on by one rivet. The plate will have a two- or three-letter transmission code in large letters, and then a 13- or 14-digit identification number along the bottom:
1st digit: month of production (A through M, skipping the letter "I") 2nd-3rd: production day of the month 4th: shift transmission was produced (1st-3rd shift) 5th: assembly plant (T: Three Rivers, MI; J: Windsor, Canada; W: Warren, MI) 6th-7th: decade and year 8th-9th: or 8th-10th: transmission ID code 10th-13th: or 11th-14th: transmission serial number
